So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. So I guess without further ado, Anthemos Georgiades from Zumper, welcome aboard. It was like $46 million. Thats just part of the game. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. He's raised $39.2 million in venture capital, grown the team to 70+, and completed the acquisition of apartment search platform PadMapper. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. Got it. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. Taylor Glass-Moore Co-Founder. So how did you meet your cofounders? When you look your cofounders, your team in the eye and you know theyre ready to go and theyre resilient and they come back in to build and try the next thing and youve kind of worked out together this is part of the game. So we bought them. Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. A lot of that is in the bank. Alejandro: Got it. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. How does the day to day at Zumper work? I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? I grew up in London. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. Alejandro: So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. He remains a huge Tottenham Hotspur fan, and wakes up painfully every Saturday morning to tune into the live English soccer games. Theyre struggling to kind of grow their audience because they didnt have enough listings whereas Zumper at the getgo we had a lot of unique landlords on the platform that no one else had. Im so glad I did it. His passion for relieving the stress for others in . Saying that, in the early days you kind of need to bring on all the capital that you can. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Never thought Id be an entrepreneur. Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. Got it. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. Alejandro: So Im completely there with you. She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. You kind of just all in [06:39] I think where the carving of the rose start to happen for me around 10, 12 people where you no longer just have [06:49]. Terms & Conditions! Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. So M&A are strategic [33:48]. Oh wow, good question. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. Had worked in politics. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. Got it. Got it. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. Anthemos Georgiades. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. How does the day to day at Zumper work? Alejandro: Got it. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. Prices can change quickly! He discovered that the marketplace doesnt work for renters, and the idea for Zumper was born with the goal of evening the playing field and increasing transparency in the marketplace. Yeah. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. And to be fair, some of these 20 did indeed come back later to invest but in Boston and I pitched all of the east coast investors first because I was on the east coast and they were straight nos. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. As CEO, Anthemos has raised $39.2 million in venture capital from investors including Kleiner Perkins, Goodwater Capital, Breyer Capital and Foxhaven Asset Management, including a Series B round in Oct. 2016 when many start-ups were struggling. Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. Categories . In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. I didnt think that either of them originally. But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. Anthemos Georgiades: No. The reality is often in the early stages, youre going to want to take all the capital thats given to you and you may not have multiple term sheets. So we tell the small landlords, Hey, dont just advertise in Zumper. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. So I guess what was the timeline of this C round compared to perhaps your seed round of 2012? And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. When people ask me what Im most nervous about its how to keep our amazing team together, a couple of tactics and then one thing that really worked. Anthemos Georgiades, Zumper, European Founder, International Founders, Marketplace The process of renting apartments hasn't changed since Craigslist was introduced. Your job is to raise capital and your job is to kind of hire and retain the best talents. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. The most important thing is to surround yourself with an amazing support group because it is so much harder to build a company than I thought it was and the emotional resilience you need to get through the dark days and come back to the bright days even now is what [38:54] just get harder like yeah, we have more revenue now but with that there are people [38:58] and like huge revenue targets we have to attain and so the most important thing is surround yourself with a network of family, friends, mentors, peers, your team, your investors, whoever is an emotional crutch for you where you can take from them but also maybe get back to them as well when theyre having a tough time, thats the single most important thing is look after your mental health because it is lonely and it is stressful and if youre able to kind of be resilient you have a great outcome but it is really hard on some days to push through, so build that around just [39:35] and you can be happy while running your company. So Im completely there with you. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. FUNDED EP01: How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars (Zumper) 00:00 51:07 Episode Summary Anthemos Georgiades, founder of Zumper, perfected his pitch the way most founders do: through trial and error. How much respect is there? Thats your job. How flat is the company? Great question. We love our investors. Yeah. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. Its just part of the game and it doesnt [24:30]. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. Not really actually. Hello, everyone, to the DealMakers Show. I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. 1.4.1 - Provisions of this Code Declared . I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Thats just part of the game. Anthemos Georgiades: Its part of the game. Yeah. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. So lets talk about Zumper here. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. So yes, we have a great cap table. Zumper CEO & Co-Founder Anthemos Georgiades makes renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel, shares insights on monetizing marketplaces, diversifying r. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. Got it. The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. And in terms of preparation, Anthemos, how has the preparation like preparing before going to market to start engaging investors, how have you seen with your business, with Zumper, how have you seen that changed over time as the rounds were maturing? At scale you get to do that and have those teams. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. Thank you so much. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. Thats quite motivating for people. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. How many landlords did we have on the site? Thats quite motivating for people. I didnt think that either of them originally. I mean I called it like a cheat [33:33] my team. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. How many listings do we have on the site? True to its reputation, Comfortbilt's HP22 pellet stove comes with a heating capacity of 50,000 BTU. It was incredibly difficult. He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. Got it. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Alejandro: Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Yeah, sure. He had actually interviewed me for a job at a different consulting firm and we stayed in touch. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Had worked at the Boston Consulting Group. It is ultimately the culture. You start to build depth and management structures. There was no book [01:41]. Got it. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. You just cant get spooked. So thats how Zumper got started. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Thank you so much. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. And [14:42] in Silicon Valley is married to [graphics 14:43] mostly in terms of great companies just break out and succeed [agnostic 14:48] as to where people went to college or if they came from a wealthy or poor family. Anthemos Georgiades Current Workplace Zumper Location 555 Montgomery St Ste 1300, San Francisco, California, 94111, United States Industry Information Collection & Delivery, Media & Internet Description Discover more about Zumper Anthemos Georgiades Work Experience and Education Work Experience Manager, Summer Investment Atomico 2009-2010 For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. How did you find these investors? I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? Make sure tenants understand why things are . We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. So I saw NEA, Kleiner Perkins, Graylog, Andreesen Horrowitz, just to name a few. Then behind the scenes, Zumper will close the transaction with the landlord and set the renter up with kind of rent payment. Saying that to your point, we see the deal was a successful and yet M&A is really hard to integrate. And so I wouldnt be too pressured. So M&A are strategic [33:48]. I grew up in London. Likewise. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. Of course. But theres no right answer in business. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? Shalin Amin Chief Experience Officer. So I think three months is an efficient round. Alejandro: Got it. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. At scale you get to do that and have those teams. Alejandro: So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. August 4, 2020. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. Russell Middleton Co-Founder. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. So Ill read it if anyone tweets anything interesting or if I can be helpful in anyway. Theres never like an exact number you need like when Uber raised money or you know Zillow raised money, theres never like a number they have to be at. It is your job not just to do the day to day but once or twice a year you should be doing stuff that has a completely linear outcome where one day youre doing you know 3 million users a month and the next day youre doing 5 million users a month. Alejandro: Got it. Ill set the first couple of meetings often alone but its been wonderful as weve grown our executive team to be able to bring like our VP of sales, our head of grow, our CPO in to the meetings afterwards when they want to meet the team. Your job is to raise capital and your job is to kind of hire and retain the best talents. No. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? For every successful fundraise, every single company have a lot of nos. It was like $46 million. How much respect is there? Township Of Ocean Police Department. Youre exactly right. Alejandro: Got it. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. I think the startups end up wasting a lot of cash that could really extend runway but thats a different conversation. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it.