From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG356* TW grind. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. T200 loft and lie adjustment - Club Fitting - Team Titleist Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. You must log in or register to reply here. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? I highly recommend that golfers get fitted before making a large purchase on golf clubs. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. 2 degrees upright - Club Fitting - Team Titleist Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Pasted as rich text. ** Due to coronavirus and the work restrictions in place here in Michigan, for international orders, please email [email protected] for a complete quote. Required fields are marked *. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* It is very easy to do these modifications, and also recommended by a lot of folks to have your set checked either frequently or at the end of each year in case any changes happened during the season from general play. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Add loft for distance?????? Not going to dig any more than normal. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. You cannot paste images directly. TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. It flies lower and that is about it. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. 716 MB'S. But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). You won't notice it. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. We dont stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. I completely agree with this! How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? You cannot paste images directly. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or Remember, the set is not necessarily progressively consistent from one club to another, and therefore each club should be checked. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. As a lifelong golfer, a student of the game and having made my living in the golf equipment industry for 40-plus years, I have made it a study to observe golfers of all skill levels as they try to figure out this crazy and very difficult game. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. 2023 Acushnet Company. Good question. What bounce does is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. By I've never had a sand wedge bent. After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. How will that affect it though? I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. Albion, MI 49224 Some 5-irons are 27. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. It would increase if you added loft. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. St Louis, MO. Its like that distance is just not filled. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? You can be assured there is not a single successful player in the professional ranks who does not have a fundamentally sound grip on the club. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. Your email address will not be published. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! Couldn't agree more with your entire post. I do not find these to dig at all. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. Will I be digging too much? Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? I've bent tons of clubs. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Can I bend my irons strong? - Golf Clubs - Team Titleist Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. You may want to try searching if you need more info. You dont need to bend the clubs. Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X 2. More photos from the event here. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X The risk that the club will break at the hosel is too high. All rights reserved. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? Step 3. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. One good example comes to mind. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. Great article! This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. And here is why. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. There are however a few key points that golfers need to know about changing the lie angle of their club so that they can get the most out of their club. It just depends. Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Team Titleist For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. Bending Golf Clubs: 5 Facts & Fallacies Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. IG: golfer_scott Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Your link has been automatically embedded. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent.